28 replies to this topic

[Michael]

I've gotten a few comments lately about my paid mods, some complaining about the price, some complaining that I even have paid mods and that I should only have free mods. I wanted to address these comments in one place, carefully thought out instead of rushed responses. I'll break this down into the two types of complaints I receive.

All mods should be free
Although this would be the minority opinion, I still get comments that I shouldn't have any paid mods and that I should have only free mods. I like free products as much as the next consumer but if it means the long term support and sustainability of the producer is at risk, what good is that to the consumer? I agree that there needs to be a balance between paid mods to free mods but to suggest I should only make free mods is just ridiculous and ignorant to the facts.

Paid mod pricing
This is somewhat of a more rational argument I receive. Most people will complain no matter what I charge, I can't really do anything about that. Some even use the price as a disguise to argue that all of my mods should be free. But for those who are actually genuine and feel my products are too much, I understand your concerns but I can't change how market forces work. I have to pay for my expenses (I put a majority of my mod sales income back into tools that I use for mod development, computer accessories, software etc..) and like it nor not, making mods does take time and resources. And once done I have to support these mods and fulfill commitments that I made when I sold upgrade and support subscriptions.

[Doomsday]

Everything in the world isn't free. Plain and simple.

[Andrews860]

Hope you don't mind replies to this topic.

I was one of the people that commented on the price of your modifications. While I do think some of them are overpriced, I do not think they should all be free. Those that say that are simply not being reasonable. Modifications such as the Donation Tracker and the Garage System should obviously be paid products- a lot of time and work went into them. Not saying these are the only ones, they just stood out to me.

I was interested in your Donation Tracker. Right now we just have a sidebar block that has a PayPal donate button- that's it. Nothing fancy. I was looking for a modification that tracked donations. Donation Tracker does just that and much more, but it doesn't make sense to spend $35 on it when we don't even get that much in donations in 1-3 months. If it was $20, or even $25, I would be more interested.

Edited by Andrews860, 26 July 2009 - 01:23 PM.

[Loren]

Not everyone needs a specific mod - you pay for high quality mods that are supported.
IPS charges (USD) $50 for Blog and $50 Download Manager - they charge $65 for Gallery. Renewals are $20 per year for Blog and $20 per year for Download Manager - $30 per year for Gallery.
I think those are fair prices for high quality mods that are supported. I bought (and renew) all three yearly.

I bought 2 copies of Donation Tracker and 1 copy of Garage - both are high quality mods that are supported well.
I would prefer a system like IPS has - mainly because it would be easier for me to just pay a yearly automated renewal.

In this case I don't think Michael can "make up the difference" by selling more copies - in the end he is only one person supporting many mods and customers. I have seen several really good programmer/mod makers get overwhelmed with support issues - not because their software is not good but because the more you sell the more people buy it because they heard it was "really good" but they don't have a clue how (or why) they should use it. And it some cases they don't rally need it.

In the end it is Michael's decision alone what he feels his work and time is worth. We all choose to buy from him because of the high quality and support.
And, I am one customer that will happily pay for his work.

[Michael]

Andrews860, on 26 July 2009 - 01:22 PM, said:

Hope you don't mind replies to this topic.

I was one of the people that commented on the price of your modifications. While I do think some of them are overpriced, I do not think they should all be free. Those that say that are simply not being reasonable. Modifications such as the Donation Tracker and the Garage System should obviously be paid products- a lot of time and work went into them. Not saying these are the only ones, they just stood out to me.

I was interested in your Donation Tracker. Right now we just have a sidebar block that has a PayPal donate button- that's it. Nothing fancy. I was looking for a modification that tracked donations. Donation Tracker does just that and much more, but it doesn't make sense to spend $35 on it when we don't even get that much in donations in 1-3 months. If it was $20, or even $25, I would be more interested.

Well it does that and much more because I've put a lot of time into it, I'm not sure you would be so receptive, if someone came to your work place and said your not worth this much, you should take a 40% or 50% pay cut? I don't know if it's the anonymity of the internet but I'm sure you wouldn't do that.

There are modifications that cost more than this, much more than this. That actually don't make you money, yet people don't say a word when buying them. And to be fair, if I were too lower the price do you think those that make hundreds or in some cases thousands through the donation tracker would come back to be and say here is the extra $10-15?

I'm charging what I think this mod is worth, not what you only need it for, just because you only need a part of this mods features doesn't mean I can sell you just that bit. And seeing as the people that complain about price are a small minority I think I've gotten the balance right.

Edit: Thanks Loren for the feedback

[BrandonT]

In my opinion your mods and support is worth the price and then some...

For the functionality of your paid mods I'm surprised anybody complains but I guess there will always be people who wants and wants but will never give.

[Michael]

Thanks Brandon, appreciate it.

I've had some interest in making a shop mod, that would probably cost more than the donation tracker, but now I'm afraid to even consider the responses I would get from that.  

[BrandonT]

I would definitely be interested in it.

[Andrews860]

Don't take what I said offensively. In the end, I would be lucky if I used 50% of the features you have implemented into the modification. That is why I do not think $35 is a reasonable price. I'm not doubting the worth of the product or your time as a whole. Hope you understand what I am trying to say here.

I don't expect you to sell me a portion of the modification either. This all started from a simple one line comment on the Resources website.

[Michael]

Andrews860, on 26 July 2009 - 10:34 PM, said:

Don't take what I said offensively. In the end, I would be lucky if I used 50% of the features you have implemented into the modification. That is why I do not think $35 is a reasonable price. I'm not doubting the worth of the product or your time as a whole. Hope you understand what I am trying to say here.

I don't expect you to sell me a portion of the modification either. This all started from a simple one line comment on the Resources website.

No not at all, this is just a general statement, this is not directed to you in anyway. Maybe some kind of special might be needed, it might be the recession that makes this out of reach of some people but as for a long term price reducation I don't think that will happen, especially since my costs are going up.

[Andrews860]

I've sent you a PM (or rather started a private conversation?), we can go from there.

[gerry5039]

Michael don't let them get you down buddy, I have bought 2 of your mods and they are bloody fantastic and the support is second to none, I can honestly say that my money was well spent and worth every penny.  If they don't want to pay or they want it cheaper, let them write it themselves, and if they can't they will come back and pay.  Also I would be interested in a shop mod too even if it cost me $100 you pay for what you get.  Excellence.

Keep chin up Michael, please you do sterling work.

Good luck

Gerry

Edited by gerry5039, 28 July 2009 - 08:58 AM.

[LordBattleBeard]

gerry5039, on 28 July 2009 - 08:55 AM, said:

Michael don't let them get you down buddy, I have bought 2 of your mods and they are bloody fantastic and the support is second to none, I can honestly say that my money was well spent and worth every penny.  If they don't want to pay or they want it cheaper, let them write it themselves, and if they can't they will come back and pay.  Also I would be interested in a shop mod too even if it cost me $100 you pay for what you get.  Excellence.

Keep chin up Michael, please you do sterling work.

Good luck

Gerry

+1 to a shop mod, I think all the mods are very reasonably priced.

[MPFF]

well i think its quite cheeky complaining about paid mods alot of the people on here dont understand the ammount of time and effort that goes into creating these modifications if they are not happy with the price then id just tell them to go and create there own and release that as a free mod

[jamesxs]

only feed back so far i have:

I have used the ipb garage mod for 3 years or so and im sure Loren remembers me back from the day as aka crawleycruise

I then went from when copper007( what even his name was ) from ipb to registy and had it working for a while and even helped a few people with feedback and ideas on mods to it! I still have all the fields in db from upgrading from 2.3 ipb but could never get a update for it. As i run a car site off over 2000 members it was a great FREE mod to have for people to show of their cars and add ons here in the UK

Only today did i see on here there is now a updated mod for ipb 3.0, but sorry to say i would not be updating just yet as i feel $30 for a mod is too much at present, as for 3 years i got it for free and cant see why to pay a lot for a copy.

Bossman I have to say does great mods and have to say his a top guy on help with free mods and of course some people would like some money for all their hard work to cover costs like the board, the server, the time to code things which I 100% agree with, keep up the great work, just a shame I cant get the garage mod yet.

[ismadman]

I must say , a lot of people have obviously never tried to code before , let alone an ipb board .
I am a testament to the support and (albeit) painful task of devfuse aka mike looking after his customers .
I have bought 5 mods of him ( correct me if i'm wrong michael lol ) and every one has been worth it
WHY ? Because I know a LITTLE bit of code and to do what these guys do would have taken me 100's of hours .
so what does 100 hours equate to in my time ...hmm... let me see ...on slave wages that would be about $10 aussie
so its still $1000 .
Yeah , I know ipb board only cost most people $150 US ( unless on sale lol ) but they give you the frame
And at the end of the day , Hey , It's only a forum .
These guys jazz it up to be whatever you want it to be
and they normally are only one person . So instead of a business run with lots of people and ( at my last count ) 330,000 license holders of ipb
no wonder you can get the forum for buckleys . But these guys put their heart into their mods and I must say , the support from michael
has been phenomenal . So ease up people . If you can make it yourself for cheaper , yeah go for it .
But what is your time worth ????
I have worked with mike on about 8 other projects out of the goodness of his heart . So what did I do ?
Paid him anyway . Why did he do it ? because what I was doing intrigued him . So he took part .
So in a sense , he's not making these mods for money , but to broaden his horizons so he can make better mods for us in the future .
And hell , I myself would keep paying him for that to happen .
Cause if the modders don't keep producing , our forums get boring and die .
so a $15 mod is really paying to keep these guys interested in creating more add ons and plug ins ( read - hooks ) so we
can enjoy our sites and not get bogged down in a boring old set out forum .
Sorry people , but to me , well , these mods are way underpriced .
I have been studying the ipb code since 2.3.3 ( not long i know ) but it is so broad and these guys have made
it their task to learn it so we don't have to
so to all the complainers
go back to smf or phpbb where you belong ( lol not meant personally )
onya Mike . Keep up the good work !

[JimD]

You'll never satisfy everyone unfortunately.... but remember, the minority complainers always manage stick out beyond the majority who are perfectly happy to pay for things.

In the case of Michael's modifications, I'd honestly say are the best about, in terms of function, quality and support.

My view... additional features on a website, that encourage more people to come and, more importantly, stay are absolutely key. I manage 4 car owners clubs, £18 for the Garage system is a steal... its one of the main features... I'd pay £50! But then I appreciate I'm lucky to have the financial backing from my club members and sponsors.

I charge £10 per year for someone to become a member... in return they get all the additional features of the website... Garage, Timeslip Downloads, Gallery the list goes on... as well as discounts with a wide range of companies... one in particular is insurance... that alone can save the member 10's if not in some cases 100's of pounds... therefore they've spent money to save money... its a no brainer (well you'd think anyway)... It never ceases to amaze me those who complain, why should they pay to use the site...

If someone runs a free website where they perhaps only rely on income from donations and google ads then no wonder they complain about paying for mods... however, add more features to the website and give people a reason to want to donate... then, before long, the cost for that modification has more than paid for its self.

----

On a slightly seperate note... JamesXS, if you dont charge some form of membership on your site, surely a few donations from members will help to cover the cost? £18 for a license for the Garage system, which has more features than the Registry... and more importantly is being developed on, with the like of yours, Loren's and my suggestions in the pot... you could even have it as a donators only feature, that way it really does pay for its self.

[TwitterArcade]

Great Mods, Great Prices, Worth the money.

[jamesxs]

well im toying with getting it, and make it only useable by paid members, but as i said 3 years or so was free and i offered it to all members, i will get it, just going to get someone to pay for it lol

[Bob]

The only thing I would like to see is some savings if you bought more than a couple mods. I know IPS has bundles, and it would be nice to save a little money when you buy 3 or more modifications. I have already bought two modifications from here and my members love them, and they were worth every dollar I spent. I plan on buying more, but this economy sucks.